In The Director's Chair: James Redford, Dreamcatcher
"Psychologically the responsibilities and the pressures of directing are so great that you get into a bunker mentality while you're working. Everything outside of that objective goes away."
-- James Redford
With an innate eye for the American southwest, and a sensibility for dissecting a modern family's emotional terrain, screenwriter James Redford made his directorial debut with Spin (2003) adapted from Donald Everett Axinn's novel of the same name. The film, whose cast includes Stanley Tucci, Dana Delany, Ryan Merriman, Paula Garces and Ruben Blades tells the story of Eddie (Ryan Merriman) whose parents are killed when the plane his father is piloting crashes into a mountain near their home. Confronting the issues of prejudice and personal tragedies in 1950's America, Redford set his drama against a backdrop that lends itself well to the material.
"I wanted nature to be a character in the film, a sense of isolation and the desolate barren beauty of the desert," says Redford. "If I captured that it was going to highlight the sense of loneliness and alienation that the boy feels living in a place that is alternately beautiful but lonesome. So I wanted to make sure that the imagery of the southwestern landscape had an emotional quality to it. From that point of view I was quite taken with the work of Ansel Adams, which I've always responded to emotionally. And even though we shot in color the clarity, simplicity and integrity of the natural environment of the film owes itself to that influence."
The coming of age tale, shot in thirty days, debuted in October 2004 in Salt Lake City. It garnered the Crystal Heart Award at the Heartland Film Festival and was featured in 2003 at AFI's Los Angeles International film festival and The Mill Valley Film Festival.
Redford's screenwriting credits include The Acting Thing (1996), Cowboy Up (2001), TV's Skinwalkers (2002) and now Spin (2003) (www.spinthemovie.com). In 1998 he produced The Kindness of Strangers. Redford is Founder and President of The James Redford Institute for Transplant Awareness (JRI). For more information, visit www.jrifilms.org.
In January 2005, Reelwriter.net had the pleasure of interviewing Redford about his role as first time director and how music and dreams inspire his sensibilities as an artist.
Kelly McCarthy: After completing the script what was your process like in putting the project together?
James Redford: There were two tracks, the assembling of the camera team and the casting, which was happening simultaneously. The first thing I did was to review dozens of cinematographer's work. You try to trust your instinct to find the right fit. In my case, I found Paul Ryan who I knew really well. He was also second photographer on A River Runs Through It (1992). I knew his sensibility and I knew of his love for the American west. I also knew that he was a pilot and was very passionate about flying. I just knew it would pay off and it did. In the process of putting together a team, first and foremost you have to make sure that the aesthetics are simpatico. Quickly after that you have to envision being under the gun with somebody.
McCarthy: How did being the screenwriter of Spin help you in your role as director?
Redford: When the clock is ticking and the sun is going down there are a thousand and one decisions being made. If the prop guy comes up and says, 'wait a minute, does this ashtray really have to be there?' you don't have to run back to the trailer and look at the script to see if there's any significance with the ashtray. You've written it.
McCarthy: Did you do your own storyboarding?
Redford: Yes. The only way I could work it out was by sketching it. The screenplay is single-sided and on the backside of the preceding page, the blank page, I would draw diagrams that related to the facing page. I would sit down with the assistant director, Tim Bird, who was brilliant. Then I would translate, O.K., here is the language for that, or here is the vocabulary for this shot as I see it. And there was some vocabulary that I needed to learn that I did by the end of the shoot. But that diagram of each and every scene was critical. I could do that a lot earlier next time, allowing me to think about other things in pre-production.
McCarthy: I once read an interview with Barbra Streisand about directing Yentl (1983). She said she wanted the film to look like a Rembrandt painting. What did you want Spin to look like?
Redford: I wanted nature to be a character in the film, a sense of isolation and the desolate barren beauty of the desert. If I captured that it was going to highlight the sense of loneliness and alienation that the boy feels living in a place that is alternately beautiful but lonesome. So I wanted to make sure that the imagery of the southwestern landscape had an emotional quality to it. From that point of view I was quite taken with the work of Ansel Adams, which I've always responded to emotionally. And even though we shot in color the clarity, simplicity and integrity of the natural environment of the film owes itself to that influence.
McCarthy: Now having worked with a film crew do you see value in reassembling key players as a team in your future projects?
Redford: Absolutely, particularly because I had such a terrific staff. There was a great camaraderie and on the set there was a lack of politics and a lack of unnecessary drama. I think putting together a team is a terrific idea because the more you do that the more familiar you are and there's less second-guessing. People don't have to stand on ceremony. We trust each other because we've been down that road. I can use shorthand and they can use shorthand. I happened to stumble on some very talented people like Patti Podesta, who came onto Spin late because of a change in personnel. She did Memento (2000) and she was really terrific to work with. She's going to go onto big things. I was really lucky to have her, Paul Ryan, Tim Bird and Alexis Scott who did costumes. I mean those four I will always try to round up.
McCarthy: What films or filmmakers inspired you during the process?
Redford: There are a number of movies that inspired me, some more than others did. I think Wim Wender's work in Paris, Texas (1984) in some odd way, though you wouldn't necessarily think of it because the styles are different. But the way he set that story within a landscape was compelling to me. It struck a balance between a sense of place and a sense of character that has always stayed with me. And I felt that with Spin that balance was something to strive for.
McCarthy: Going in, what kind of mood did you want to create on the set?
Redford: I wanted people to feel that they could invest in the outcome of the movie. I wanted them to feel like they could bring their best stuff to the table and it would be honored. I do view film as a collaborative process and I wanted people to feel they were participating with me in the making of this movie. Inevitably there are tense moments and tense times and I think more than anything I wanted to make sure that it never got out of hand. I think when things get out of hand it's really hard to reel it back in.
McCarthy: What was your casting process like?
Redford: In casting we were able to make interesting choices against type. And I think Stanley Tucci is a great example. From the script you'd expect the character Major Haley to be a square-jawed American fly-boy, sort of a waspy reticent character. But I thought it was more interesting and complicated to have someone like Stanley Tucci, who in that character would seem like a man who is fundamentally uncomfortable with his surroundings and in his skin. Something told me that he would do something interesting and unpredictable. I also thought that he probably doesn't get an opportunity to play these kinds of roles either. He's a brilliant stage and movie actor who often plays urban characters and this would be an opportunity for him to play a role he might not normally do if this wasn't a small, independently financed film. So we gambled on whether or not he would respond. He did. He just did a terrific job. I learned a lot from him.
McCarthy: Like what?
Redford: He has a great sense for how much the camera needs and he doesn't give too much. He has a great awareness, which comes from his talent and experience as an actor and filmmaker. He taught me a lot about performance. He knew what the character wanted and needed. He could anticipate how the dailies were going to look. I couldn't because I just didn't have the experience yet. But it was very valuable because we didn't have video playback. We didn't have time for video playback. We didn't have money for video playback. So we had to go on best guess. You do your takes, and you know you only have a short amount of time. So I had to sense O.K., did I get it or not. And until the footage came back I wasn't entirely sure, because I felt he was coming in a little too lean in his performance. And yet, the minute we got the dailies back and I saw what he was doing, I said O.K., boy, he's on it. He knows exactly how much it takes. It was a good lesson for me.
McCarthy: As a first time director what were some of other things that surprised you, that you didn't expect?
Redford: I did not expect such a heavy withdrawal process once shooting was done. It's very stressful. Psychologically the responsibilities and the pressures of directing are so great that you get into a bunker mentality while you're working. Everything outside of that objective goes away. When it's over it ends very suddenly. You have to go back to your normal life, catch up on all of your bills and your mail and your relationships. And it took a long time to become rooted in reality again. It's been two years now and I've gone on to write a number of new screenplays since then and have had to go through the whole process of distributorship. I'd felt like the experience of Spin was behind me. Then the other day I came across a CD that I hadn't listened to since I was driving around scouting locations for the movie. And the enormity of that experience washed over me.
McCarthy: What was the CD?
Redford: It was a Willie Nelson CD called Teatro.
McCarthy: How did music play a part in your moviemaking process?
Redford: Music was a really big part of the film. The composer, Todd Boekelheide is phenomenally talented. He had scored a documentary on Yosemite National Park that I really responded to and in a way goes back to Ansel Adams, as so much of his good work goes back to Yosemite. So it's sort of an interesting connection. During the pre-production I listened and listened to music, trying to establish the kinds of sound that would be right for the score. By the time I was in post-production I had developed a musical sensibility that I was going for.
McCarthy: What music were you listening to?
Redford: Everything from Calexico, which is sort of an avante guard Arizona band to Rye Cooter to Willie Nelson. I'm an avid guitarist and I write while I'm listening to music. So it's a big part of my process.
McCarthy: You don't find that distracting?
Redford: No. It's kind of psychotic, you know? But it seems to work. When I was writing papers in college I would go to the busiest cafeteria on campus and set up shop. And for some reason that sort of input helps me to focus. Give me a dead silent room and I can't get anything done.
McCarthy: Now that Spin is in theaters what are you working on?
Redford: I've got a couple of things. One of them is a project adapted from a Donald Everett Axinn novel that was never published called Allan, Burning. It's a story about a man living a double life. It's a dark, comic noir thriller, entirely different from Spin in its storytelling and genre. I took a thread of it and developed it into a movie, which is allowing me to explore my more contemporary side. I just finished the last draft and in about two weeks I'll be coming down to Los Angeles to set it up somewhere. I also have a comedy that I've written. It's also more of a social commentary. It's a family comedy called Mike and the Male Action Plan. I'm deciding whether or not I want to direct it. Then there are two other original screenplays I'm working on but it's premature to talk about them now. I wrote another Tony Hillerman project. I think Chris Eyre is going to direct it. That's shooting in May in New Mexico and is calledDance Hall of the Dead. That was really fun because I got to look back at three Hillerman movies. Having come off Spin it was fun to go back into the detective genre.
McCarthy: Sounds like you have eclectic interests.
Redford: That's what's important to know about me. I really feel like after I've written a script in a particular genre, I want to move on to something else. The trick is to try and find work that suits you at that point and time in your life. Allan, Burning is where I am at now. In a couple of years I'll be somewhere else. It's nice to have your work reflect that. It's one of the things I admire about Steven Soderbergh. He is so facile. He can go in so many different directions and do it so well.
McCarthy: What other types of writing inspire you?
Redford: Lately I've started keeping a more detailed journal because I think no matter what you are writing a journal is important. Plus I'm keeping a careful record of my dreams. I've never done that before, waking up in the middle of the night and writing them down. Strange imagery can make for some very interesting film images. Unless you write them down your dreams can remain just an idea. But if you write down your dreams with some of the details, then it comes back to you as an image rather than an idea. And that's kind of cool.
McCarthy: These days Hollywood isn't quick to embrace an artist who doesn't stay within a particular genre. Yet, it seems you're following your artistic vision wherever it takes you.
Redford: Do I think that's going to make things harder for me, or easier? It's going to make it harder. But I can't worry about that. I think the minute you start trying to second guess what's right from the industry's point of view and what the conventional wisdom is you've just lost. You're not going to have an anchor. If you don't enjoy moviemaking on a daily basis, and you don't feel like you're growing in your own work and exploring new territory, you are not creating value for yourself as an artist.
McCarthy: In creating value for yourself, have you struggled with being compared to the work of your father, Robert Redford?
Redford: One of the things I had to wrestle with in making Spin was the inevitable question about my own work in relationship to my father's work. One concern was that the landscape and the traditional dramatic aspect of the movie was territory that my father had covered in movies like The Horse Whisperer (1998) and A River Runs Through It (1992). And I thought long and hard about whether there would there be a perception problem with critics that I was trying to mine a vein that he had already been down. At the same time if I put that aside and said what if I'm just me, an individual, should I really pass up an opportunity to direct a movie based on what other people might think? I decided no. This was an opportunity to explore my abilities as a director and go for it. I'm so glad I did.
McCarthy: True to the nature of critics did they make those father/son comparisons?
Redford: Sure enough critics who didn't like the film almost invariably talked about it being a derivative. But that issue of being Robert Redford's son is never going to go away. It's just there. I can't help that. And I also can't help it if I have a passion for the west that is a product of my upbringing. But I don't think there will be any confusion in the case of Allan, Burning. It's a very different project and in some ways a more pure reflection of my view of contemporary moral problems.
McCarthy: What have your learned from your father's work?
Redford: I think the way my father's work has impacted me more than anything is the films and the performances themselves. It's not necessarily the time I spent on the set because after all he's my dad and when I used to be on the set I was just a kid looking for the Hershey bars in the trailer. But from being on sets I have a comfort level. I know how sets are and I know how to move on a set. But I never really studied him when he made a movie.
McCarthy: How is your work different from your father's?
Redford: I think in the way I can be perverse. I think that's going to become a lot more evident as I'm moving forward into the next phase of my work. I have a sordid side that I think my dad would be glad to say that he doesn't have. Some of the things I've been exploring in my writing about human nature, especially in Mike and the Male Action Plan and Allan, Burning will surprise some people.
McCarthy: What other director's have made an impact on you?
Redford: Xavier Koller made a movie I wrote called Cowboy Up (2001). And I spent some time with him. That was interesting because he understood how to establish a pace for the film. I didn't really understand that idea of pacing and I think he really helped me with my writing in that regard. Also I learned the ability to trust the actors and have them participate in the process.
Then there's Chris Eyre (director of Smoke Signals (1998) and Skinwalkers (2002, TV). He knows how to take a scene that is relatively straightforward and add just a small detail that can open an enormous amount of emotion. He had the confidence to come fresh to the set every day and not be too locked into his shot list. And I have to say Sydney Pollack, who directed my dad a lot, was influential. I think his work on Jeremiah Johnson had a huge impact on me. Talk about character and the environment, nature, using the less is more aspect in dialogue and trying to convey as much through visual as opposed to words. I have a feeling that's why the movie was so successful abroad. The Europeans could understand what the movie was supposed to be about without being bombarded with too many subtitles. He just has magic in that regard and it certainly stuck in that movie.
McCarthy: What did you learn from your first directing experience?
Redford: I will now be able to better predict how a minor change might have a major effect on the tone or implications of story. I thought I understood what the ramifications of some of my choices were going to be when I cut back on the script, but it really was too hard to anticipate. Also, I would probably do my shot list a lot earlier. With your first film there is so much that is unknown and so much of it is trying to stay ahead of your learning curve. It's like an avalanche coming at you and you're trying to outrun it. Regardless of how you've grown up or how many movies you've been around, you don't know until you've made a movie. So I think not having that avalanche coming at me will help me to truly focus on how to make it better all the way through the process rather than trying to survive the process.
McCarthy: What else might have prepared you for your first directing experience?
Redford: I've spent a lot of time involved with the Sundance Village, which is a resort in Utah. It's a family owned resort. And I have been involved and had a lot of experience over the last six to eight years with the decision making, consensus building and trying to move it forward in the right way. It's been a lot of strategizing and careful evaluation about how to move the village forward. And this has nothing to do with the institute. This is just a physical place in Utah. I was surprised how much those experiences ended up being far more valuable than I ever thought it would. You're running an organization and you're a leader.
McCarthy: How did you relate this experience with directing?
Redford: There's a lot about successful directing that doesn't purely have to do with the aesthetics or the performances. You have a lot of people to manage and a lot of relationships to manage. And you have to work effectively in building a harmonious atmosphere. If you don't the film is going to suffer.
McCarthy: As we end this interview, I can't help wondering what music you were listening to when you were working on your final draft of Allan, Burning.
Redford: Cajun music, some records on the Alligator label and also some Slack Key Guitar work by a guy named Led Kapaana, whose work is sort of more Hawaiian but in the particular album I was listening to had a real Nashville influence. And then there's a band called Cake. They have a darkly comic quality in their work that I really like. When I was writing a lot of the funnier scenes I listened to Cake.
